Killenwood

To: fastech370 I am still dimensioning in SketchUp not in Layout. I have not done much experimentation with the dimensioning in Layout, so I can't say much about its possibility to replace dimensions in SU.

I'm continuing to deliver SU files to users who do not have Layout. Therefore, I am motivated to continue my dimensioning in SU.

However, I do find Layout very effective in producing my drawing documentation, even without using its dimension capability.

Tim

Croc, that should work.....

Tim

RVH, Randy, you asked about Style Settings. Could you be more specific about Style settings that you see are different in SU7? I have made some changes in my Style settings (primarily lightening-up the background), but I have not changed because of the new SketchUp version.

Tim

Cataline: At first, I was surprised by your question on whether I would be making the hinge. But then I remembered that my typical blog entry is on something I am actually building. In this unusual case, I have no intention to make the hinge.

Tim

To redryder (WA0FSE): I wondered how long it would take to recognize that second expensive hobby. Not long. I'm working 20 m and can hear MN.

I use the standard Arc Tool to do the trace overs. It reuires creating arc segments that connect tangentially. It takes some practice but I'm able to do it quite fast. SketchUp helps this by indicating a tangent connection by turning cyan color.

Tim

To johnmcm: Before Layout I would print out each scene and assemble into a document. Occasionally I would export JPGs for each scene and import into Microsoft Publisher. Then I could add text in Publisher to supplement the pictures. But now with Layout, these work-arounds are not required.

Tim

To andyboy88: Thanks for the comments. I have to admit not using plug-ins generally. The only one that I seem to use consistently is Cut List. Occasionally, I've used Shape Bender and Taper Maker in doing chairs, but very rare.

Dave Richards, my partner in Design. Click. Build., has a very good knowledge of plug-ins and uses them regularly. He has provided his favorites listing in a couple of his past blog entries.

Tim

Don, I just checked the website. It is on and available at Killenwood.com.
Glad you've had success with SketchUp.

Tim

To Gisli Balzer: I do not use a jig for cutting the 45's. I use my bandsaw with a miter fence. The bandsaw is equipped with a 1-in. wide carbide-tipped blade. It makes a very clean cut which requires no clean-up. If the joint doesn't quite fit, I can remove a sliver with this carbide blade to slightly widen the 45 degree slot in the rails and stiles.

When cutting the 45s on the muntin ends with tenons, you have to stop the cut before cutting into the tenon.

Tim

To robscaffe: Yes that would work fine. However, I must admit finding it worrying upon seeing a dimension hanging out in mid air not connecting to anything.

Tim

Edgarwood: I would recommend that you initially practice and learn SketchUp on a rectilinear project. I would find it more difficult, as a new student of SketchUp, to tackle this chair. And it would be frustrating as you have found.

Tim

To CJMac: I would use SketchUp if I were doing a kitchen cabinet design. But I am not in that business. There are other applications specifically designed for cabinet work, and I have not used any of them. I am sure these specific programs have features tailored for this type of work, so you would need to evaluate the differences.

Tim

Denis, yes I am aware of Maloof using multiple pieces for the seat. These pieces were bandsawed prior to gluing to relieve the scooping effort in shaping the top of the seat. This process could be captured in a SketchUp model. I do not think this changes the joint details for the legs.
I am using ash in a width which avoids gluing pieces. Also, I used my Windsor chair process for scooping the seat (with travishers).

Tim

Dear Seatoe: Your situation reminds me of my experience several years ago. I was using AutoDesk products plus Microstation and SmartSketch - 2D only. I wanted to be in 3D in the worst way, but the bigger systems were just too hard and expensive. I spent 3 hours in a SketchUp class in San Francisco, and even though the course was geared toward architects, I was convinced SU would work for furniture.

I spent the next 30 days or so working almost full-time to get my hands around SU. The 2D CAD experience did get in the way of progress at first. But then it started to make sense and I got over the worst of the learning curve.

Perhaps you can get into a course in your area. More woodworking clubs are getting involved in this, so you can check there. Also, SketchUp holds periodic training courses in major cities.

If you're in my area, there are more options to get over the hurdle.

Tim

To Design. Click. Build. Readers:

You may wonder why the week's gap in new entries to this blog. Both Dave and I added new posts last week but they did not show in Design. Click. Build. due to a failure in the blog software. I think the system is now repaired and those previous entries are now showing here in the proper location.

Over the last two years, we've worked to have regular posts on a weekly basis. So it was unfortunate to break that record. Hopefully, we're back to a stable platform.....

Tim

denismo: I am very interested in your procedure. One of my students is having much difficulty making a successful continuous arm bend on a high chair which has sharper turns. Laminations may be a way out of the dilemma.

Tim

tlilley: Thank you for the note on printing these blog entries. I just now printed the entry and was surprised to see all pages. Previously the system would only print one page no matter how long the entry (without comments) is. This is a welcome change. I think this will solve most of the problems commented by readers, even without comments.

Tim

Dear WarmTone: I would not spend a minute looking for a router bit. I would use hand tools to shape the roundover, such as a shoulder plane, and/or scratch stock.
You could easily make a scratch stock shape out of an old scraper blade or bandsaw blade. The holder for the blade is a simple "L" shaped piece of lumber about 4-in. long and 1 1/2-in. wide (3/4 thick) with a kerf for the shaped blade.
Prior to using the scratch stock, I would use a shoulder plane to rough out the shape.
I also have a set of wooden hollows and rounds (old planes). These help me match shapes in reproduction furniture.

Tim

Croc: regarding Excel to JPG..... Unfortunately Layout will not import Excel, Word or PDF. (I think these imports would enhance the Layout application). Therefore, I export the Excel to PDF at first. Then I open the PDF in Adobe Acrobat and export to JPG. This is cumbersome I know, but is the only way I know to get my cut lists into Layout.

Tim

Teamman: Yes, when I place dimensions into a specific layer other than Layer 0, it is the dimension itself that is moved, not any graphics or components. I click on the dimension (or multiple dimensions in a view) and use the Layer Toolbar to switch them to the alternate layer.

I do not place my dimensions into the component, with a couple exceptions that are explained in a previous blog entry (URL below).

http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/item/7025/rules-for-dimensions

I hadn't planned on showing details on using and placing items into layers. This is a big subject and perhaps we need to have more information in future entries.

In the meantime, here is a previous writing by Dave Richards on Layers.

http://blogs.taunton.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?nav=main&webtag=fw-designforum&entry=78

Tim

DiveMike: I will indeed be showing the steps I use to create the Exploded View. Nothing fancy here, and it only takes a couple minutes to pull a copied assembly apart. Components are a must for doing this.

Tim

docparm: I will cover the CutList but not sure I will be able to help you with the "rough" lumber. I do not show rough thicknesses in the cutlist, only the thicknessed dimensions. I do show rough thicknesses in my Cutting Diagram however.

Tim

DaveS48: I generally keep my dimensions on Layer 0 and outside the component definition. There are occasions where I need a close-up view of the component to more easily see detailed joint dimensions. I don't want these detail dimensions to show in the overall component view. So I will set up a layer for detail dimensions. Then I can set the Scenes to show or not show this specific layer.

When I make the detail dimensions, I originally make them on Layer 0. Then I click on the dimensions and flip the Layer to the detailed one. This procedure avoids my creating graphics on the wrong layer when changing the active layer and forgetting to reverse it.

Tim

mnedman: Interesting comment regarding the failure of intersection in this case. The results of intersection here are very much related to the flush position of the breadboard flat against the edge of the top piece. SketchUp will not detect any intertection of the table top tongue or long tenons. I will show how this works in a blog entry tonight.

Tim

Dear KTKOH:

Obviously, Flip along is only applicable for symmetrical models built on the red, green, blue axes. Thankfully, most furniture has this attribute. Even in the case of Windsor chairs, I design the left half only. Then in the end, I use flip along to create the right half.

You are right that a component's original layout has an impact on the flip along result. If for example, the table leg component is created flat rather than vertical, the flip along does not behave as I've shown in the blog entry.

My practice is to create my components in situ with the assembly in the proper orientation. For example I do not create my leg component flat, when it actually is vertical.

In my next blog entry I plan to show how the component's original orientation affects the flip along.

Tim

Smith5963:

I do not share your interest in knowing how many lefts and rights there are. Especially when it would multiply the work effort in design with no apparent advantage.

Tim

Smith5963: Yes, there is an alternative using the Scale Tool and -1. I do not typically use this method and prefer the easy right click and selection of Flip along.

Tracking the number of components is done by other means and does not require the drastic and mistaken duplication of components. Making unique components of a common design would create major extra work and frustration.

Tim

Ken, I think we should be able to get you over the issue with drawing to length. My next blog entry will show details.
However, I want to check with you on your method of using the mouse. Occasionally I find that students have problems with drawing to length as a result of holding down the left mouse button. In SketchUp, problems are caused by holding the mouse button while drawing. When starting a line click with the left mouse button but immediately release, start to move the mouse down the red (or whatever) axis, then type the exact length, e.g., 2 1/4 and hit your enter key. That is all there is to it, but you must be tapping the left mouse button, not holding.

Tim

Bill, I made that curved face by brute force and it is a tedious process. Basically I start with a flat face that I know is a proper shape and length. Usually I can trace over a drawing from a book, for example. Also these books will show a top view of the crest rail so I can trace the bending shape as well. On the curved face, which is not shaped except for the bend, I turn on hidden lines. Then I copy shapes from the flat face and connect/rotate to fit on to the bent shape. I suppose there is an easier way, or a plug-in but I am not aware of one, but looking.

Tim

Nick JW.... thanks for the idea, i.e., using the camera to capture a picture of a drawing in the book, then importing the jpg into SketchUp.

Tim

NickJW: Thank you so much for reminding me of this very useful feature - that is, placing a Guidepoint at the center of a circle. I had forgotten how to get this to work in SketchUp as it is not an automatic capability. Dave Richards located this and points out that you have to have a check mark in Windows/Preferences/Extensions/Ruby Script Examples.

Tim

JohnMCM: Yes I built four of these sash in oldgrowth redwood. The windows are in a timber frame building I built, also in oldgrowth redwood. I used 18th C hardware iron strap hinges and iron catches.

Tim

1bri: my email is tkillen@killenwood.com

Tim

To 1bri:

I'm suspecting your issues relate to "editing" the component. If you've used components, make sure that you do an "edit component" before making changes. Also, I'm suspecting that you scaled on the basis of editing the component, then de-scaled without editing????

Not sure about all that, but I can be sure if you send your file to my email.

Tim

To 1bri: Let me try to respond to both your notes......
1. Push/Pull does not work on curved faces. You can use the Move Tool to pull a curved face (with careful selection of the entities.
2. Intersect functionality is totally available in the free version
3. When I'm using Intersect, often I explode the components or groups involved. Then I can easily Select All and do Intersect with Selected. This seems to give me better results than doing the Intersect Model option.
4. SketchUp uses two different colors for each side of a face. The blue color indicates that SketchUp thinks that is the inside face. Often I find that SketchUp makes the wrong decision on inside or outside face. So I'm making frequent use of the function (right click on face) Reverse Faces.

You are doing great, and let me know of other issues. I remember how frustrated I was in the beginning with SU.

Tim

Baja Mike, there is a previous archived blog entry on handling miter joints of various kinds. The blog is in the old style archive and the link is:

http://blogs.taunton.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?nav=main&webtag=fw-designforum&entry=115

Tim

Hoop36: The FWW staff are working this issue. I will let you know when the problem is fixed.

Tim

Hoop36, now I understand....

In fact I also had only one page print. I will check with the Fine Woodworking Staff....

Thank you,

Tim

David, thank you for the information. I understand doing the two-point type of turning. I have done that before on a bannister back, which was a two-piece post. I assumed they would have steam bent the back post - I think this was much easier than messing with a double point turning and large stock. As it turns out, the bending method I used worked fine. I've finished the chair now - I did the whole thing in ash (original was cherry). Then I painted with barn red, then pitch black milk, paint. So I strayed from the strict reproduction style. Interestingly, I found a picture of the original I took when visiting the Wadsworth Atheneum. Didn't know I had this picture until after finishing the chair.

Tim

Hoop36: I'm not understanding the question or issue. To print an article on DCB does not require SketchUp 6 or 7. You simply click on the Print command on the DCB page. I am sorry to ask this, but you will need to be more specific on what you are trying to do.

Tim

Max, I'm glad you raised the flag of the beginners in SketchUp. I recognize that many of our most recent posts have been more advanced applications. Particularly chairs are probably the most challenging modeling tasks.

However, I think we do have a plethora of help on beginning tasks in SketchUp. Perhaps you have not seen the "Archive" which includes some 150 posts many of which are on the basics.

To get to the Archive, note the panel on the right titled "About Design. Click. Build.". In the bottom of this box is a link to the older posts, and when you get there, you need to look for another box in the right hand panel which links you to the old "Archive".

Also, we like to hear specific issues that you are having, including attachments to emails that we can work with and help you along.

Keep in touch,

Tim

David, thank you for the comments and offer of help. You must be right about the Pennsylvania look. I quote from the Lester Margon book, "This type of ladder-back chair resembles closely one belonging to William Penn, which he brought over from England. However,....."

This chair according to the reference, is from the Wallace Nutting Collection in the Wadsworth Atheneum, Hartford Conn.

I'm interested how you would do the bend of the Back Post. I steamed the upper half of each Post today, clamped them to each side of a thick plank in the middle, and pulled the finial ends together with a clamp (no form). I'm hoping that I've adjusted for the rebound in the bend. I will see tomorrow when I remove from the clamps.

Tim